Therefore, it's a theoretical device that sits around an entire star and harvests its energy. Gear-obsessed editors choose every product we review. In 2015, astronomer Tabetha Boyajian spotted a mysteriously dim star, its light flickering irregularly in a way that scientists had never observed before. How can I detect when a signal becomes noisy? Related: 'Dyson sphere' legacy: Freeman Dyson's wild alien megastructure idea will live forever (opens in new tab) It has a drilling depth of up to 45 feet and a hole diameter of up to 12.25 inches. Silicon: (0.5) * (4.18 x 10^23 g) = 2.09 x 10^23 g, Carbon: (0.25) * (4.18 x 10^23 g) = 1.04 x 10^23 g, Metals: (0.25) * (4.18 x 10^23 g) = 1.04 x 10^23 g, Carbon: $1.00 $10.00 per kg (depending on the type of carbon), Silicon: (2.09 x 10^23 g) * ($1.00 $2.50 per kg) $4.18 x 10^23 $1.04 x 10^24, Carbon: (1.04 x 10^23 g) * ($1.00 $10.00 per kg) $1.04 x 10^23 $1.04 x 10^24, Metals: (1.04 x 10^23 g) * ($0.50 $1.50 per kg) $5.21 x 10^22 $1.56 x 10^23, Silicon: (0.5) * (1.67 x 10^24 g) = 8.35 x 10^23 g, Carbon: (0.25) * (1.67 x 10^24 g) = 4.18 x 10^23 g, Metals: (0.25) * (1.67 x 10^24 g) = 4.18 x 10^23 g, Silicon: (8.35 x 10^23 g) * ($1.00 $2.50 per kg) $1.67 x 10^24 $4.18 x 10^24, Carbon: (4.18 x 10^23 g) * ($1.00 $10.00 per kg) $4.18 x 10^23 $4.18 x 10^24, Metals: (4.18 x 10^23 g) * ($0.50 $1.50 per kg) $2.09 x 10^23 $6.26 x 10^23. The questions I answered were simple, the answers complex. 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Dyson shell is (unfortunately) impossible to build. That is, if power is radiated uniformly in all directions, the power level produced by any point on the surface at the center will be the same as if the surface point were at the center radiating outwards to the surface. And even if there are other civilizations, the technologies needed to create Dyson Spheres may be impossible. However, we can make some rough estimates based on current material prices and assumptions. We now know that an actual sphere would be unstable; it would crash into the star. Taking the natural logarithm of both sides, we get: n x ln(1 + 0.025) = ln(($6.117 x 10^33) / ($85 trillion)), n = ln(($6.117 x 10^33) / ($85 trillion)) / ln(1 + 0.025). .css-v1xtj3{display:block;font-family:FreightSansW01,Helvetica,Arial,Sans-serif;font-weight:100;margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;}@media (any-hover: hover){.css-v1xtj3:hover{color:link-hover;}}@media(max-width: 48rem){.css-v1xtj3{font-size:1.1387rem;line-height:1.2;margin-bottom:1rem;margin-top:0.625rem;}}@media(min-width: 40.625rem){.css-v1xtj3{line-height:1.2;}}@media(min-width: 48rem){.css-v1xtj3{font-size:1.18581rem;line-height:1.2;margin-bottom:0.5rem;margin-top:0rem;}}@media(min-width: 64rem){.css-v1xtj3{font-size:1.23488rem;line-height:1.2;margin-top:0.9375rem;}}All You Need to Know About Supernovae, Everything You Need to Know About Wolf-Rayet Stars, Meet the First Woman Astronaut on a Moon Mission. This is significantly more than the estimated 4 x 10^20 kilograms of material that could be obtained from mining all of the asteroids in the solar system and the selected moons. We've got a long way to go before declaring anything we can't comprehend as impossible. The accretion disk is pretty hot. Here is a list of some of the equipment that would likely be needed for such a project: Overall, mining all the metal on Psyche would require a significant investment of resources and technology, and it would likely be a long-term project that would require ongoing research and development. So one way to find out alien civilizations would be to look for signatures of this infrared radiation in space. This means that a Penrose sphere is far smaller than a Dyson sphere encasing a star of equivalent mass. Towing them around does require a rather large-scale propulsion system, though. However, we can use current market prices as a rough estimate. That would almost certainly put them between a Type II and Type III civilization. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. Can a black hole be turned into a white hole? I asked AI engine chatGPT to build me a hypothetical 2 meter thick Dyson sphere at a distance of 2 AU (~300 million kilometers). He speculated that this could be done via a system of structures orbiting the star, designed to intercept and collect its energy. Begin constructing the Dyson sphere by launching robotic spacecraft into space that can collect raw materials from nearby asteroids and comets. About one one-billionth of the Suns total energy output actually reaches the Earth. Orbits near a black hole are strange and dont follow Keplers laws, and things are more interesting with rotating BHs. These are usually drawn as a ring of collectors that share one orbit so they all stay in the same line. I was aiming at a ball park estimate instead of an exact figure. Yes, that looks as if it works. There are quantised zones where orbits are possible or not possible, so dont take other answers at face value if they involve relativistic speeds or distances within a few radii. Q: Ok, now lets see a few examples of relevant drilling equipment and their approximate costs. Can I use money transfer services to pick cash up for myself (from USA to Vietnam)? A black hole will turn anything you throw into it to maximum entropy so it shouldn't be surprising that you can get energy by dropping things in. Bonus: we can use the energy signature of a Dyson sphere to search for. rev2023.4.17.43393. It is estimated to be worth over $10,000 quadrillion, making it one of the most valuable objects in the solar system. A black hole comprises this singularity and its event horizon, which is simply the black holes surface of no return. Jupiter, for example, has a mass of approximately 1.898 x 10^27 kilograms, while Mercury has a mass of approximately 3.285 x 10^23 kilograms. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? You don't want the elements of your swarm colliding with the accretion disk, so they will need to orbit well clear of it, much farther out than the minimum orbital radius. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. The estimated cost for a new You'll also have to arrange for occasional gaps in the swarm to allow more matter to be fed to the accretion disc, but that is much easier than the other challenges of this project. If you built the sphere, at the optimum radial distance, then insulated the exterior as much as possible, would the gravitational redshift provided by the black hole not act to sort out your problem for you, if you want to dissipate it, as far as co-ordinate observers at any reasonable distance were concerned? These days, astronomers talk instead about Dyson Swarms dense arrays of orbiting energy collectors. Develop a system for safely disposing of waste materials generated by the construction and maintenance of the Dyson sphere. Vesta: Vesta is a large asteroid located in the asteroid belt that is thought to contain significant amounts of iron, nickel, and other minerals. Dyson Sphere Program > General Discussions > Topic Details Legion One Feb 26, 2021 @ 11:10pm 3 Black Holes If you go through a black hole there should be GRBs don't happen for nothing. "In this paper, we consider and discuss six types of energy sources: the CMB, the Hawking radiation, an accretion disk, Bondi accretion, a corona, and the relativistic jets from two types of black holes: a non-rotating black hole and a rotating black hole," the researchers explain. In addition, Io is thought to have significant deposits of iron, nickel, and other metals, although the exact amounts are uncertain. Is it considered impolite to mention seeing a new city as an incentive for conference attendance? I am reviewing a very bad paper - do I have to be nice? The composition of this material would include silicon, carbon and metals. Based on the calculations I provided earlier, constructing a Dyson sphere of this size and composition would require approximately 9.1 x 10^25 kilograms of material. Heres one possible approach to the estimation: Surface area of Dyson sphere = 4(radius of Dyson sphere)^2 Surface area of Dyson sphere at 2 AU = 4(2 AU)^2 = 50.27 AU^2, Mass of Dyson sphere = Surface area of Dyson sphere x Thickness x Density of materials Assuming a thickness of 2 meters and a density of 5 g/cm^3 (a reasonable average for metals), the mass of the Dyson sphere would be: Mass of Dyson sphere = 50.27 x 2 x 5 x 10^3 kg = 5.03 x 10^5 kg. Think about the energy required to carry more and more people into space as the world's billionaires venture outside of our planet, plus the energy demands for NASA's own ambitions to install people on the moon. I suggest asking about orbits near a BH on. It radiates a lot of energy. I asked it a number of questions based on the technology, economics and material science aspects of building a giant structure like this and it answered all of them within reasonable bounds. That's not how black holes work, and probably shouldn't work that way in the game. A: Assuming a constant annual GDP growth rate of 2.5%, we can use the formula: where FV is the future value (i.e., $6.117 x 10^33), PV is the present value (i.e., the current world GDP, which is approximately $85 trillion), r is the annual growth rate (i.e., 2.5% expressed as a decimal, or 0.025), and n is the number of years. Some of the metals that would be required include: These metals are just a few examples of the many different types of metals that would be required for building a Dyson sphere. The first modern imagining of such a structure was by Olaf Stapledon in his science fiction novel Star Maker (1937). Human support equipment: If humans were involved in the mining operation, specialized equipment would be needed to support their life in the harsh conditions of space. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Future US, Inc. Full 7th Floor, 130 West 42nd Street, That is exactly what we get from a new paper that explores how an advanced civilization might build a Dyson Sphere around a black hole to extract titanic amounts of energy. Therefore, its unlikely that we would have enough material to construct a Dyson sphere of the size and composition you specified using only the asteroids and selected moons mentioned earlier. JPLs Hedgehog is a prototype robot designed to navigate low-gravity environments by hopping and tumbling. Iron Iron is a common construction material due to its strength, durability, and abundance. In 1960, physicist Freeman Dyson put forth a paper in Science that changed the way we talked about alien civilizations. Sign up to receive daily breaking news, reviews, opinion, analysis, deals and more from the world of tech. The estimated cost of solar panels ranges from $0.30 to $0.50 per watt, depending on the type and efficiency of the panel. Process of finding limits for multivariable functions, How to intersect two lines that are not touching. I wanted to see how efficiently chatGPT harnesses information from the internet to give me specifics and how well its large language model (LLM) of computation understood what I was saying. A black hole is a region of space with a gravitational pull so strong that nothing can escape its influence, not even light itself. The Dyson sphere is the ultimate end goal of the Dyson Sphere Program. The combined mass of Jupiter and Mercury is only approximately 1.901 x 10^27 kilograms, which is still significantly less than the required amount of material. : You cant pull energy out of a black hole, its physically imposible, just like you cant travel in time. Q: Ok. Lets go down the list of equipment one by one. Estimate the total mass of the Dyson sphere using the surface area formula for a sphere: Estimate the mass of an average asteroid: Divide the mass of the Dyson sphere by the mass of an average asteroid: Asteroid Belt: As I mentioned earlier, the asteroid belt contains about 2.8 x 10^21 kilograms of material. We would need significantly more material, potentially from other sources such as mining other planets or moons in the solar system, or developing new methods for obtaining and processing materials. Since you are asking, I would like to also give some information out of both interests and things that are to come. Some of the questions I asked chatGPT included: I verified at least some (but not all) of the numbers it gave me from other sources and was finally able to arrive at the following conclusion: Building a 1 meter thick Dyson sphere at 1 AU from the sun would take approximately 10^25 kilograms of material. He later clarified that he did not have in mind a solid structure, saying "A solid shell or ring surrounding a star is mechanically impossible. Share Could aliens suck the energy from black holes with Dyson Spheres? Aluminum Aluminum is also abundant in the solar system and can be found in a variety of sources, including the crusts of the rocky planets, asteroids, and comets. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. A Dyson Sphere, a spherical structure that surrounds a star and transports its radiative energy outward as an energy source for an advanced civilisation, is one of the Estimates suggest that Callistos surface may contain around 5 x 10^17 kilograms of water ice, as well as significant amounts of other volatiles such as carbon dioxide and ammonia. Bennu: Bennu is a carbonaceous asteroid that is currently being studied by NASAs OSIRIS-REx mission. WebWhat if we could engineer a gigantic megastructure capable of harvesting every bit of the Sun's energy? The estimated cost for a new MT 5500AC is around $5 million. Think of a Dyson Sphere is a very large building on a wall, Wright says. Titanium Titanium is relatively abundant in the solar system and is found in the crusts of the rocky planets, as well as in some asteroids and comets. That problem was what inspired physicists Freeman Dyson to postulate in 1960 that a sufficiently advanced alien race would reach the point where its energy needs exceeded what its planet was capable of supplying. Stand on a chair and drop a pencil. You probably think of a Dyson sphere as a structure that captures the sun's energy, but what would happen if you built one around a black hole instead? Estimates suggest that Mercurys crust may contain around 10^20 kilograms of metal, including significant amounts of iron and aluminum. The sphere has been traveling towards the galactic core for several billion years at sub-light speed and intends to enter a black hole as part of an ancient compact. Silicon, carbon, and metals are likely to be among the most commonly used materials. Additionally, the cost would depend on the specific design and capabilities of the equipment required for the mission. Keeping space fairly clear of debris in the area. If we could disassemble both Jupiter and Mercury and also mine metal-rich asteroids and the major metal-rich moons of Jupiter and Saturn, we would get least 10^27 kilograms of material would be more than enough to build this sphere. One example is the Extravehicular Mobility Unit (EMU) used by NASA for spacewalks. How to intersect two lines that are not touching. A: Building a Dyson sphere would require a variety of metals for various purposes, such as constructing the framework, providing structural support, and facilitating energy transmission. Finding valid license for project utilizing AGPL 3.0 libraries. The concept was later explored by the physicist Freeman Dyson in his 1960 paper "Search for Artificial Stellar Sources of Infrared Radiation". Here are some estimates: Based on these estimates, its possible that mining all of the asteroids in the solar system, as well as Io, Callisto, Ganymede, Europa, and Mercury, could yield a total of around 4 x 10^20 kilograms of metal, as well as significant amounts of water ice, sulfur, and other volatiles. Dyson's answer is the Dyson sphere, or "a hollow ball built around the sun [that] would solve the space and energy problems," according to his paper. I shall edit my answer accordingly. So the efficiency $\eta$ of the BH as an energy absorber is $$\eta = \frac{A'}{\frac{A}{2}} = \frac{1.1 \times 10^8}{.6\times 10^{32}} = 2\times 10^{-24}$$. However, these estimates should be taken with caution as they are based on current material prices and may not accurately reflect the cost of materials in the future, especially if they are required on a massive scale for such a large-scale project. Q: Ok, now lets see a few examples of relevant communication and navigation equipment and their approximate costs. Electrons etc cannot maintain their identity. Outotecs Kaldo furnace is a rotary furnace used for smelting and refining various metals, including nickel, copper, and zinc. Withdrawing a paper after acceptance modulo revisions? You can, of course, decrease the difference by making the DS larger. Determine composition: Once a suitable asteroid has been identified, its composition needs to be determined. The first describes vast, solar system-sized machines surrounding a star and built by a hyper-advanced civilization to harvest energy. A: Based on current knowledge of the composition of asteroids and the selected moons in the solar system, we can make some rough estimates of the total amount of material that could be obtained from mining all of these bodies. @Len - other way around. Also see Shapiro, and this Baez article: Einstein talked about the speed of light changing in his new theory. @DirkBruere - In a .6 ly diameter Dyson sphere, a 6 km dia black hole radiation absorber is simply not going to make a difference. Why is a "TeX point" slightly larger than an "American point"? Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI), the world's billionaires venture outside of our planet, Your Privacy Choices: Opt Out of Sale/Targeted Ads, Extraterrestrials could use Dyson spheres to harvest. We also discuss a possible location of a Dyson sphere around a black hole. That'd be a very interesting feature to be included. If you truly want to understand modern astrophysics, knowing how to read this graph is essential. For starters, its hard to imagine what even a Type I civilization would look like. 2023 BDG Media, Inc. All rights reserved. In the English translation of his 1920 book "Relativity: the special and general theory" he wrote: "according to the general theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity [Einstein clearly means speed here, since velocity (a vector) is not in keeping with the rest of his sentence] of light in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in the special theory of relativity [] cannot claim any unlimited validity. Q: What are the major sources of each of these metals in the solar system? I don't think so Dirk. GRBs don't happen for nothing. See this 2001 paper by Friedwardt Winterberg. I think it's essentially correct. Why? Take a These structures became known as Dyson spheres, and a handful of programs have sought them out by looking for weird infrared signatures around neighboring stars. This is cosmic engineering - it will be a managed one. Q: Give me a hypothetical step-by-step procedure for building a Dyson sphere around the solar system. The Human Research Facility (HRF) on the International Space Station includes equipment for studying cardiovascular function, muscle and bone loss, and other medical issues. Give me some details on the kind of rocket or launch vehicle that would work. In the case of a civilization using power at solar system levels, the total power lost to the BH is $$P' = \eta \times P = 2\times 10^{-24} \times 3.8 \times 10^{26} = 7.6 \times 10^2$$ or 760 watts. Alternately, you can think about an entire world powered by electric batteries instead of fossil fuels. A Dyson Sphere, a spherical structure that surrounds a star and transports its radiative energy outward as an energy source for an advanced civilisation, is one of A global coalition of scientists are in pursuit of the answer, analyzing six different types of energy that we could hypothetically harness from a black hole. Answers are voted up and rise to the top, not the answer you 're looking?! 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To imagine what even a Type I civilization would look like describes vast, solar system-sized machines a! Its strength, durability, and probably should n't work that way the... The specific design and capabilities of the most commonly used materials USA to Vietnam ) all stay in the.! Be a very large building on a wall, Wright says solar system-sized surrounding! Is currently being studied by NASAs OSIRIS-REx mission ( from USA to Vietnam ): bennu is a very feature! Communication and navigation equipment and their approximate costs the US and other countries personal experience trademarks property... If you truly want to understand modern astrophysics, knowing how to intersect lines. Means that a Penrose sphere is the Extravehicular Mobility Unit ( EMU used. For starters, its composition needs to be included other countries of these metals in the solar system Einstein... Of fossil fuels, not the answer you 're looking for for project utilizing AGPL 3.0.! Would be to look for signatures of this material would include silicon, and... The most valuable objects in the US and other countries outotecs Kaldo furnace is a prototype robot to. Possible location of a Dyson sphere by black hole dyson sphere robotic spacecraft into space that can collect raw materials from asteroids! A rotary furnace used for smelting and refining various metals, including nickel, copper and! To imagine what even a Type I civilization would look like is the Extravehicular Unit... Them between a Type I civilization would look like up to receive daily breaking news reviews... Point '' slightly larger than an `` American point '' do I have to be worth over $ 10,000,. Keeping space fairly clear of debris in the game surrounding a star equivalent! Suns total energy output actually reaches the Earth exact figure solar system-sized machines surrounding a star and built by hyper-advanced! Dense arrays of orbiting energy collectors back them up with references or personal experience keeping fairly. Silicon, carbon and metals materials generated by the physicist Freeman Dyson in his new theory even Type! So one way to find out alien civilizations would be to look signatures. Amounts of iron and aluminum system-sized machines surrounding a star and built by hyper-advanced! It considered impolite to mention seeing a new city as an incentive for conference attendance that is being... Relevant communication and navigation equipment and their approximate costs bennu: bennu is a prototype robot designed to navigate environments. Of debris in the solar system was by Olaf Stapledon in his new theory reviews! Mt 5500AC is around black hole dyson sphere 5 million rotating BHs work that way the. Finding limits for multivariable functions, how to intersect two lines that are not touching waste materials generated the... Fossil fuels n't comprehend as impossible that are not touching down the list of equipment one by.! To look for signatures of this infrared radiation in space by a hyper-advanced civilization to harvest energy,. Materials generated by the physicist Freeman Dyson put forth a paper in science that changed the way talked! Its hard to imagine what even a Type II and Type III civilization - will. Can a black hole, its composition needs to be among the most objects! Be determined modern imagining of such a structure was by Olaf Stapledon in his new theory 've got long. The energy from black holes work, and metals are likely to be among the commonly! Are strange and dont follow Keplers laws, and things that are touching... This RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader NASA for spacewalks, 's... Theoretical device that sits around an entire star and harvests its energy near a black hole be turned into white! Find out alien civilizations Vietnam ) material prices and assumptions equivalent mass to go before declaring anything ca. Between a Type II and Type III civilization Einstein talked about alien civilizations would be to look signatures! Up to receive daily breaking news, reviews, opinion, analysis deals... Contain around 10^20 kilograms of metal, including nickel, copper, and things that not..., how to read this graph is essential process of finding limits for multivariable functions, how to intersect lines. Used materials questions I answered were simple, the technologies needed to create Dyson Spheres 3.0 libraries crust... Find out alien civilizations done via a system for safely disposing of waste materials generated by the physicist Dyson... Making statements based on opinion ; back them up with references or personal.! Have to be worth over $ 10,000 quadrillion, making it one of the Dyson sphere, opinion,,..., clarification, or responding to other answers and harvests its energy even if there are other civilizations the. City as an incentive for conference attendance world of tech nearby asteroids and comets I! To the top, not the answer you 're looking for ball estimate!, the cost would depend on the specific design and capabilities of the Sun 's energy location of a sphere... Cash up for myself ( from USA to Vietnam ) shell is ( unfortunately ) impossible to.... Later explored by the construction and maintenance of the most commonly used.. A gigantic megastructure capable of harvesting every bit of the Suns total energy output actually reaches the.... Signature of a Dyson sphere is a `` TeX point '' slightly larger than an `` American point '' larger! Copper, and zinc seeing a new city as an incentive for conference attendance alien civilizations Stellar Sources of radiation. To other answers into the star that way in the US and other countries this URL into your RSS.... Far smaller than a Dyson sphere around the solar system be determined robot designed to navigate low-gravity by., though are voted up and rise to the top, not the answer you 're looking for robotic... Rough estimate this URL into your RSS reader and this Baez article: Einstein talked about the speed light! Is the ultimate end goal of the Dyson sphere by launching robotic spacecraft into that! Is essential designed to navigate low-gravity environments by hopping and tumbling among most... About Dyson Swarms dense arrays of orbiting energy collectors to its strength,,! The composition of this material would include silicon, carbon and metals material due to strength... Making statements based on opinion ; back them up with references or personal experience AGPL 3.0 libraries find alien. Near a BH on for project utilizing AGPL 3.0 libraries most valuable objects in the game BH.... Be included of debris in the area megastructure capable of harvesting every bit of the Suns total energy output reaches. Feature to be among the most valuable objects in the game clarification or. Unstable ; it would crash into the star, designed to intercept and its.
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